Home › Forums › Destiny of an Emperor › Formations: Strengths and Weaknesses
Tagged: Destiny of an Emperor, Guan Xing, Samuel
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April 24, 2006 at 11:30 pm #4021SamuelParticipant
I agree with Lord Yuan Shu, formations are not really necessary for winning most battles. But appropriate use in two or three of them make certain battles a lot easier. I hereby discuss each formation’s strengths and weaknesses, as well as when I use them.
SanKai: just the default formation.
He Yi: increases the offence but weakens the defence. I never use it, even against Yuan Shu. I train my troops up to level 10 and wipe out Yuan Shu’s army in four rounds.
Heng Fang: increases the offence and the defence. However, the agility will decrease. Enemies may be able to attack before Liu Bei’s army strike.
Bai Ma: only increases agility. The most important thing is this: generals in the Bai Ma formation can launch double strikes against enemies in the Heng Fang formation. I had this battle once, when I fought Cai Mao at Xiang Yang. Therefore, NEVER set up a Heng Fang against a Bai Ma.
Yu Lin: weakens opponent’s success in tactics. I strongly recommend this formation at the battle against Chen Jiao during the reunification of Jing Zhou. Chen Jiao’s intelligence is 195. At this stage of the game, only Zhuge Liang (255) and Zhao Yun (200) have higher intelligence. I used Yu Lin and managed to weaken the potency of Chen Jiao’s tactics. Otherwise, he can use Li Jian on Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, and Zhou Cang. The disadvantage of Yu Lin is that the generals in the wings (ie. first and fifth position) have very low attacks. Yu Lin can be helpful against Shu generals, since most of them have above average intelligence.
Feng Jian: I never use it. It increases the offence and defence for the general at the centre of the arrow (ie. third position). But the ones in the wings will lose almost all of their attack abilities.
Yi Wen: Significantly increases offensive strength but weakens the defence. I never use it.
Bei Shui: We can use it only when we battle near a body of water. It does the same thing as Yi Wen. The key difference is that we are not allowed to retreat in this formation (very original to the historical idea of Bei Shui). I never use it.
Jing Mo: Evades enemies’ attacks but cannot use healing tactics. I used it two or three times, usually against Hao Zhao at Chen Cang. Hao Zhao is very good at using Jing Mo. I counter him with the same formation so that he and his generals have a less possibility to evade my attacks. Yes, the probability of successful evasion decreases when both sides use Jing Mo. It breaks down to SanKai once the battle ends.
Ba Gua: This is the strongest formation of all. I use in every battle at gates, citadels, and cities when I fight against Wei. We have to choose a general when we set it up. This will be the only general that suffers from enemies’ strikes (but not tactics). It is kind of like Ji Mian but it will always be effective, unless the enemy uses Jie Zhen or An Sha successfully. This formation render strong but unintelligent generals (e.g. Xu Zhu, Dian Wei, Pang De) to near uselessness. Ba Gua breaks down to SanKai once the battle ends.
One final note: Ba Gua collapses as soon as one general dies in battle. Other formations collapse when two generals die.
April 24, 2006 at 11:34 pm #18175Lord Yuan ShuKeymasterwow, good work Samuel. I’m definitely going to have to try to implement these more this time through the game.
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Huo Hu's Adventure started Destiny of an Emperor hackingApril 25, 2006 at 1:02 am #18176SamuelParticipantDefinitely implement it. I wish that you have a lot more fun this time around. Other DOAE2 Walkthroughs often ignore forming Yu Lin against Chen Jiao. For me, I suffer tremendously in this battle without Yu Lin. Chen Jiao can cast Li Jian on Guan Yu and Zhang Fei. Bang! They kill my guys.
The earlier you get Ba Gua, the easier the Wei battles become. Knowing each formation’s strength and weakness enable us to strategically crack it down, when enemies form it.
April 25, 2006 at 1:05 am #18177Lord Yuan ShuKeymasterYes, that is the most important aspect I believe. Not necessarily using them myself, until the later more powerful tactics, but being able to counter the enemy after they use a tactic. Before, I was clueless as to what the enemy was doing when it changed formations and just blindly went after the tactician who cast it.
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Huo Hu's Adventure started Destiny of an Emperor hackingApril 25, 2006 at 1:11 am #18178SamuelParticipantVery true. Let’s say you fight Sima Yi. Obviously, you order all of your generals to attack him. But if he sets up a Ba Gua, this strategy does not work. You have to crack the Ba Gua by using Jie Zhen (very low success rate) or find the general that takes hits. Once we discover the general who loses HP after our attacks, kill him with all of our strength. The Ba Gua collapses. Then, you focus your attacks on Sima Yi again.
April 25, 2006 at 4:38 am #18179SamuelParticipantBy the way, the game calls these formations "arrays."
April 25, 2006 at 4:42 am #18180Taishi CiParticipantBa Gua looks like it could be very helpful in Wei in my game, I’ll remember it.
…no, I won’t say it. I liked the title SKOB. Also, I thought I could change my title now?
April 25, 2006 at 4:43 am #18181Lord Yuan ShuKeymasterhaha, I suppose I could address them properly.
Did I? Well I suppose I can allow that since you got there so fast. And ah…I guess just tell me what you want it to be because I can’t find the permission or whatever to allow you to change it yourself, if there is a function.
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Huo Hu's Adventure started Destiny of an Emperor hackingApril 25, 2006 at 4:48 am #18182Taishi CiParticipantNot sure at the moment, I’ll think of something later.
Kudos to Samuel for gathering all this info, btw.
April 25, 2006 at 4:52 am #18183Lord Yuan ShuKeymasterDefinitely, good work.
Samuel, how do you know if your agility increases or not in an Array? And is it always the case with Arrays that the people in front have a higher attack and worse defense while the back characters have a low attack and a good defense?
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Huo Hu's Adventure started Destiny of an Emperor hackingApril 25, 2006 at 5:26 am #18184SamuelParticipantThanks for the Kudos, TaiShi Ci. My information on arrays come from mutiple playing experiences, as well as reading original walkthroughs (written in Chinese, I lost it long time ago) for the Japanese version.
Lord Yuan Shu, the answer to your question is no. In an array, people in the front do not always have higher attackers and lower defence. People in the back do not always have higher defences and lower attacks either. Some arrays do not affect each general’s attack and defence abilities. Jing Mo, Ba Gua, and Bai Ma are the examples. Meanwhile, some arrays will render general(s) at the front higher attacks and worse defence, as well as higher defence and lower attacks for general(s) at the back. He Yi, Heng Fang, Feng Jian, and Yu Lin are the examples.
Some arrays highlight special purposes (e.g. Yu Lin, Jing Mo, Ba Gua). When you decide on an array, you have to know its special purpose, your troops’ situation, and the enemy’s abilities. This is why I emphasize so much on using Yu Lin against Chen Jiao.
If you look at the formation of arrays. Some of them like Yi Wen and Bei Shui do not end up having people at the front or at the back. All generals are at the front for Yi Wen, while they are all at the back for Bei Shui. They all disappear in Jing Mo.
As Lord Yuan Shu and I have discussed, you need to know the purpose for arrays because the enemy may use one against you. Ultimately, you will be able to effectively collapse the enemy’s array in a battle. You can do so by tactically attack the array’s weakness. This is much more effective than using Jie Zhen, which you won’t have until you reach level 30. Even when you have Jie Zhen, its success rate is so low that multiple uses simply waste your TPs (you throw away 16 each time). See my example for Ba Gua in this thread.
How do we know whether our agilities increase in an array? I think that we can find out by observing who attacks first. People’s agilities determine the order of attacks. If we use the Bai Ma array, all of our generals attack before the enemies’. We then realize that our agilities have increased. But Bai Ma (raises) and Heng Fang (lowers) are the only two arrays that influence agilities.
Arrays are fun. These are one of the biggest differences between DOAE2 and DOAE1.
April 28, 2006 at 5:49 pm #18185SamuelParticipantI just defeated Chen Jiao. I used the Yu Lin array and Ce Fan tactic, totally crippled Chen Jiao’s tactics.
Yu Lin is good for us to defend enemy’s tactics, if our generals’ intelligence are low.
May 5, 2006 at 12:04 am #18186Zhang LuParticipantI personally always use Yi Wen. Always looking to end a battle quickly. I know you all don’t favor Yi Wen much, but if used correctly with aggressive healing and quick attacks, it’s a beast of a formation ;)
Zhang Lu
They see me throwin' fireballs out of my sword, they runnin'.May 5, 2006 at 2:20 pm #18187SamuelParticipantI can see this strategy work effectively in Shu. But once we battle Wei troops, I believe that Ba Gua is the strongest. Wei troops’ numbers are so high that we cannot form Yi Wen and kill them quickly, unless we reach level 99 while we are in Shu.
Despite of the fact that I do not favour Yi Wen (my level is so high that I don’t need it in Shu), can you share more about your Yi Wen strategy, Zhang Lu?
May 5, 2006 at 7:16 pm #18188Zhang LuParticipantAbsolutely :)
This is the party I used in the battle with Cao Cao, which I will use as my example.
Zhang Lu (170/190)
Zhao Yun (240/200)
Ma Chao (240/140)
Guan Xing (235/175) *Guan Suo (250/160) After Cao Cao dies*
Zhuge Liang (Tactician) (80/255)
I don’t keep backup officers. I find them utterly useless, I don’t care how good they are. Unfortunately, this means I have to keep Jiang Wei in billeting. I hate to, but the extra amount of troops Zhang Lu has makes him useful as someone who can take Cao Cao’s assault better than others, so I’ll take the sacrifice in strength and intelligence for a little more staying power.
1st Round
1. Zhuge Liang uses Cloudburst, forcing Cao Cao to try and win with brute force.
2. Zhang Lu and Zhao Yun will Li Jian the ever-loving crap out of Xu Zhu and Dian Wei
3. Ma Chao and Guan Xing attack Guo Jia, trying to eliminate his An Sha-loving ass ASAP.
2nd Round and Beyond
1. Zhang Lu uses Jin Xian on everyone, we regain about 1,000 soldiers per pop.
2. Zhuge Liang uses Ji Shi and Hou Shen on Liu Ye and Guo Jia (with moderate success)
3. Zhao Yun, Ma Chao, and Guan Xing split their efforts, going for Cao Cao’s head and eliminating Guo Jia, getting around 2,000 off per (barring the random use of Jing Mo or Ba Gua by that idiot Guo Jia)
4. Heal everyone when a general’s soldiers go under 1,500. Use Li Jian on Xu Zhu and Dian Wei if and when they void it.
5. Lather, Rinse, Repeat until Cao Cao and his army of idiots are finished.
6. Rejoice, have a beer, prepare for Cao Pi and Sima Yi down the line.
Note: If Guo Jia or Cao Cao use the JingMo or BaGua tactics…then we will try to kill Xu Zhu and Dian Wei first, to get them to regroup. All tactics on them while trying to survive Cao Cao’s attacks.
To make this Yi Wen strategy work, you MUST have officers who can take a good hit. If you don’t get Zhang Lu when you can, it will be EXTREMELY hard to make Yi Wen work for you.
If you guys try it and find this helpful, Lord Yuan Shu has my permission to post this with any sort of tactic strategies for attacking Wei :)
Unfortunately, after this, I accidentally overwrote my save game, so I will be starting anew very soon :(
Zhang Lu
They see me throwin' fireballs out of my sword, they runnin'. -
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