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Tagged: Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Romance of the Three Kingdoms 2, Romance of the Three Kingdoms II, rotk2
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November 10, 2011 at 3:23 pm #40726unfyModerator
re: language
and i can't really stand c# :) hehehehe. to me, it's too obfuscated and seems like a pita to do *anything*. a few projects at work make use of it, though… and the guy that was working on them seemed to make good time while doing so…. so the language has got to be alright.
for GUI's, I tend to fall back to VB and if anything interesting needs to be done, a C DLL. C# would prolly be a happy medium between the two. also, i don't care for VB since the .net stuff, they made it less powerful by making it less simple IMHO.
re: searchable officers
DA: well… being able to add generals to the game with ease will somewhat help the 'overlooked' guys. with currently more than an extra 200 generals added compared to the original, that'd theoretically be an extra 5 per province. And there's still plenty of missing dudes.
i always kinda wanted to change how the searchable stuff worked, too. partly to solve the drought provinces like ya mentioned, and partly to solve the pointlessly grinding to search for people.
if searching maybe covered a region rather than a single province ? or if covered surrounding nearby provinces ? then… if searching covers multiple provinces, how does recruitment work ? when you search do you search enemy territory as well ?
completely random people: in order for it to not affect combat, they would have to have truly atrocious stats. i'm talking single digits. that is assuming searching is nearly always successful. if instead, you can get one random dude from each province every year (or 3 or 6 months or whatever)… that might work out better cause could prolly given them slightly higher stats ?
more generals, either random or not, might also help rulers who are in a talent vacuum area at least stand a chance ?
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edit:
finishing up the lists of what provinces are next to others. since my current map has the black borders, there's no automated way to do it atm… and it's not so bad, just 1-6 entries per province :)
November 10, 2011 at 6:17 pm #40727DragonAtmaModeratorPresumably the complete randoms would mostly suck; if they have int(rand(10-100)*rand(10-100)/100) with a minimum of 10 for reach stat, let's see…
Ten sample officers:
26 10 21
53 10 27
75 11 24
11 10 49
16 12 11
22 83 10
10 76 10
16 44 45
56 24 83
70 31 59
Not exactly china's up-and-coming Zhao Yuns, and #5 is especially ghastly. If we tweak things a bit (base multipliers 30-95, result 10-80):
51 29 24
30 72 23
32 46 45
24 80 53
30 57 57
27 54 37
39 28 42
23 34 37
37 28 41
52 41 43
It probably needs some more tweaking (say, having the desperate promoter's stats affect things), but I don't see any nobel winners here…
And having search cover multiple provinces may not be such a good idea. Even if it checks the current province AND every adjacent province, province 1 is so blessed that it returns nobody except Gongsun Yuan, and he doesn't show up until 220!
So it may be best to have both random promoting and letting searches cover a large area (see RoTK4). Presumably, area searches will pick a random province in the area and have a lower chance of finding someone.
November 10, 2011 at 8:16 pm #40728unfyModeratorQuote:16 12 11
Not exactly china's up-and-coming Zhao Yuns, and #5 is especially ghastly.
Cao Bao, is that you ?! :huohu:
Random based guys… I would personally think need to be 10-50 range on their stats, personally. There are lots of existing mediocre guys in the game already, and I don't think we should be handing out random gods ?
A completely random algorithm such as what you suggested is possible, but how about something more a long the lines of:
* minimum stat 10
* stat points to allocate: X (say, 70-120 ?)
* randomly assign the stat points to the different attributes
* possibly put in individual stat cap (no str/war over 65 etc ?)
This way you avoid a Cao Bao, but you should also avoid power houses…. yet still have *some* variety ? algorithm is a bit unimportant at the moment prolly… the concept of the random guys is what needs to be tackled ?
re: searches covering larger areas / corner cases (ie: prov 1/15)
i've not looked into getting home province / searchable province stuff put into the data files yet, so i dunno if there are truly any areas that are completely bereft. was actually prolly gonna pawn that job off to you guys / community :P
i kinda like the idea of throwing out some random dullards, but am very nervous about how it'd affect game play. particularly when we can possibly already have lots'n'lots of generals. of course, if the big provinces gain lots more people simply because that's how it is with all the additions, the wastelands are gonna seem that much worse.
it's looking like random grunts are probably going to work their way into the game, but it seems like quite a game play changer requiring lots of testing once the game becomes playable :)
November 10, 2011 at 9:15 pm #40729DragonAtmaModeratorKeep in mind that they've had luck promoting common soldiers before; Wei Yan (!) was one of them.
So there's nothing wrong with having the occasional random be above average; it's just that most of them will suck! XD
EDIT: Also keep in mind that by Emperor He of the Han dynasty (88-105 AD), every district was ordered to recommend one skilled candidate for every 200,000 residents (every 100,000 in ethnic minorities) a year. Seeing as the nominator would be punished if either they refused to nominate anyone or nominated someone corrupt, they took it seriously!
And keep in mind that that comes out to one candidate every four years for even a feeble 500-population (50,000 on the PC version) province, one officer every two years. So maybe we're underestimating the skill of those randoms, especially since the 144 AD census said china had 49.73 million people (aka 248 officers a year!).
November 10, 2011 at 10:02 pm #40730unfyModeratorDA: Point.
So…. okay. Random dudes / dudettes with possibly decent skills. Work out the details later, not up to that point yet :)… but I'm convinced they're feasible and probably welcome. If anything, a game option toggle to disable them can be offered.
Next day or two is finishing up the provincial neighbor lists (thursday nights are usually very busy for me, although it should only take 10-15min to wrap up). From there…. it's probably work on the map of china (showing who owns what province, and something to plot routes).
After the map of china is serviceable, that'd leave…. uhmmmm… actually starting a 'real' game GUI and starting some of the actual game logic / rules and such. I've been putting that off because it's… the least generic of the tasks at hand. Kind of scary how steadily it's been progressing :retard:
Outside of the mountain of data entry still left, naturally.
On a different subject, talking with my dad this morning, he was assuming I was going to offer different unit types. Archers, cavalry, etc. I wrote him back in an email stating that I wasn't too inclined to do so. It's been years since he's played the game, so I had to refresh him that it was the general stats that were the primary driving force and not unit type (as is typical with just about every other game).
Playing through 3 and a bit of 4, the extra unit types seemed to be more or less just clutter and pointless. Some of the siege engine stuff was alright, but… uhhhh it detracted from the game IMHO. In Le'Emporer, the mix seemed to do okay, but it doesn't seem to really mesh with ROTK2 style stuff ?
I personally am envisioning just the standard ROTK1/2 "everything is infantry" approach. Given that I want to offer some more combat options, particularly for the poor slaughtered advisor types, I can see there being huge chasms of room for dialog on the matter :)
If anyone has ideas on incorporating different unit types that doesn't clash with ROTK2 style and are more than just clutter, I'm listening. So far, I see it as just a waste and in the way.
November 10, 2011 at 10:34 pm #40731DragonAtmaModeratorWhile extra unit types don't fit in, buying horses for the army may be doable; it'd raise unit movement and (to a lesser degree) offense.
A list of borders in hexadecimal:
1: 02 FF FF FF FF FF
2: 03 06 FF FF FF 01
3: 04 07 06 FF FF 02
4: FF 05 07 FF FF 03
5: FF 0B 0A FF 04 07
6: 07 09 08 03 02 FF
7: 05 0A 09 04 03 06
8: 09 10 FF 06 FF FF
9: 0A 11 10 07 06 08
10: 0B 13 11 05 07 09
11: 0C 14 13 FF 05 0A
12: 0D 1D 14 FF FF 0B
13: FF 1E 1D 0E FF 0C
14: FF FF 0D FF 0F FF
15: FF 0E FF FF FF FF
16: 11 12 18 09 08 FF
17: 13 1C 12 0A 09 10
18: 1C 1B 19 11 10 18
19: 14 15 1C 0B 0A 11
20: 1D 1F 15 0C 0B 13
21: 1F 17 16 14 13 1C
22: 17 26 25 15 1C 1B
23: 28 27 26 1F 15 16
24: 12 19 FF 10 FF FF
25: 1B 1A FF 12 18 FF
26: 25 FF FF 1B 19 FF
27: 16 25 1A 1C 12 19
28: 15 16 1B 13 11 12
29: 1E 20 1F 0D 0C 14
30: FF 21 20 FF 0D 1D
31: 20 28 17 1D 14 15
32: 21 22 28 1E 1D 1F
33: FF 23 22 FF 1E 20
34: 23 24 29 21 20 28
35: FF FF 24 FF 21 22
36: FF FF FF 23 22 29
37: 26 FF FF 16 1B 1A
38: 27 FF FF 17 16 25
39: 29 FF FF 28 17 26
40: 22 29 27 20 1F 17
41: 24 FF FF 22 28 27
November 10, 2011 at 10:40 pm #40732unfyModeratorsee, DA — that kind of stuff makes me wonder if I should be opening development / data entry stuff earlier to the community hehehehe.
as it's been, it's just looking at the map and typing out a bunch of ini entries :)
i'm somewhat hoping to get it further along so there's more incentive for others to put effort into the project, though…. and feel like less of a waste of time possibly ?
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looking at the table, it seems like it might be plausible to assume that border location within the table might affect horse routing, or maybe even go as far as troop positions in combat ? with the above list, i could prolly try several invasions along the same index across several provinces to see if placement is just a list of 6 different hard coded spots. if so… that means implementing that and then leaving the discussion open for if to allow editable spots ?
of course, this doesn't really handle defensive unit placement possibilities….
November 10, 2011 at 10:55 pm #40733DragonAtmaModeratorYes! You should ask us what we have more!
As for the table, it consistently seems to be the surrounding six in the order W SW SE NW NE E. Problem is, in an experiment of mine the horses traveled in all sorts of crazy paths like a drunk Zhang Fei…
November 10, 2011 at 11:09 pm #40734unfyModeratorQuote:like a drunk Zhang Fei…ROFL
November 11, 2011 at 3:22 am #40735DragonAtmaModeratorSome of you may think I'm kidding. I'm not. Let me show you a compare-and-contrast of standard RoTK2 and a glitchy pre-pre-pre-pre-alpha of a mod…
And yes, this is with borders set to what they should be; 16 and 15 are considered adjacent for invading purposes.
And technically the path is from the province numbers, not the EXACT paths I gave, but it's clearer (and funnier) this way.
November 11, 2011 at 3:28 am #40736MiDKnighTModeratorunfy have you ever hacked Romance of the Three Kingdoms 1? My bro's been asking me to hack it to know which generals you can find in which years. The problem is I don't really know where to begin with RotK1 since nobody's really attempted to hack it.
November 11, 2011 at 3:28 am #40737MiDKnighTModeratorunfy have you ever hacked Romance of the Three Kingdoms 1? My bro's been asking me to hack it to know which generals you can find in which years. The problem is I don't really know where to begin with RotK1 since nobody's really attempted to hack it.
November 11, 2011 at 8:36 am #40738unfyModeratormidknight: nope can't help you — i actually haven't dug into rom hacking of any kind. my day job for the last 12 years or so has been c/asm in the embedded world, and i've got more c/asm experience prior to that…. so… i know a little about what's going here or there :)
da: rofl
November 11, 2011 at 1:18 pm #40739NiahakModeratorQuote:we should consider an option to promote wimpy, faceless mooks with random namesI'm a bit late to this party, but RTK9 PC w/PUK allows exactly that to happen – occasionally during a battle, you'll get a notification that a soldier performed exceptionally well, and you get the option to promote them.
DA's second algorithm is actually pretty close to what I was seeing – generals with one good stat and three middling ones.
It did flesh out the game a bit, but things do start to get cluttered if you get too many of them. Maybe it could be an optional thing?
November 11, 2011 at 10:57 pm #40740unfyModeratorQuote:I'm a bit late to this party, but RTK9 PC w/PUK allows exactly that to happen –Are you kidding, dev on this project is slow and steady (over the long run at least). There is no such things as late :)
Quote:occasionally during a battle, you'll get a notification that a soldier performed exceptionally well, and you get the option to promote them.It did flesh out the game a bit, but things do start to get cluttered if you get too many of them. Maybe it could be an optional thing?
I considered the combat stuff as well, but since this is to help poor recruiting wastelands for the most part, it'll be applied to the search function.
While extra dudez can be helpful while you're in active battle campaign, I'm not sure if a field promotion would be necessary ? It's another option we can throw on the stack, for sure tho… and something that warrants pondering.
An option — anything and everything can easily be an option :). Would just be apart of 'start a new game' series of screens.
Looking forward to being able to put time towards the project this weekend :)
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